Church Growth
Fr Stephen has written out some thoughts on American Christianity and I found this bit especially apropos after reading this post from Bruce Reyes-Chow:
The problem with this marketing approach [using different sorts of music to attract different groups to your church] is only beginning to reveal its flaws (apart from the theology behind it): America is becoming increasingly fragmented in its music styles. Thus Churches, or at least services, are having to be multiplied to meet the growing diversity of the market.The comments become pretty interesting. Especially since my church has Sunday School, Vacation Bible School, Stewardship drives, study groups, etc — all things that converts poo-poo in the comments as “too American.”
… Someone asked me once (actually more than once) what St. Anne (my parish) does to grow. I answered simply: “We answer the phone.” I cannot explain where the converts come from, though there is a slow but steady stream… The faith remains the same whether the “market” is a village in Africa or a suburb of Los Angeles. It is thus truly “inclusive” and “universal” in the extreme.
(Anonymous)
Lancaster
You belong to the church of fr
Alexander Veronis yes? I wonder how
he is, retired now as I understand.
wrote separately on a computer question
yours
+Seraphim Joseph Sigrist
Re: Lancaster
(Anonymous)
Americans and Orthodox worship
Re: Americans and Orthodox worship
Sometimes we converts are afraid of our shadow.
Exactly. My (Greek) priest likes to say that the (ethnic) cradle Orthodox need the converts just as the converts need the cradle Orthodox. We balance each other.
(Anonymous)
Re: Americans and Orthodox worship
I agree we all need one another. I'd just like to see converts and cradle alike put some serious thought into which American practices are helpful and which will import alien values into the Church. The ostensible reason for a practice is not the whole story. It has been shaped around assumptions and values that its creators probably didn't even think about.
That I feel there's nothing wrong with a practice is meaningless if I have not labored to acquire an objective outside grasp of my native culture. Something may come very naturally to my mindset and I may feel very comfortable with it; it could still be at the root of my problems. Evangelicalism is diseased. Those of us fleeing from its camps SHOULD be concerned about bringing in germs, at least until we've been thoroughly de-toxed.
On the other hand, converts can bring in a lot of enthusiasm and a helpful knowledge of the outside world. One thing I'd really like to see many Orthodox churches (re-)learn from the historic Protestant tradition is the importance of the sermon. Simply to be told, in the midst of the Liturgy every Sunday over a ten-year period, what the scripture reading means and the story of the day's saints will remove most of the need for expensive toilsome educational programs.
Re: Americans and Orthodox worship
Re: sermons. The Orthodox focus on practice and, as a result, the Eucharistic celebration is the focal point rather than the homily. I'm there for the sacrament, not a homily. I'm sure others feel the same way, or they would have left long ago -- because, yes, the homilies are poor to non-existent.
So, why restrict education to the (admittedly poor) homily? What, specifically, is wrong with Sunday School, other than that it "smells" like a protestant thing? Should we stop passing the peace because that "smells" protestant?
Instead of reacting to our past (which is probably what has brought many a convert to Orthodoxy, myself included), we should, as you suggest, bring the good with us.